Cliff Williamson

Producer & A& R

Probably not, but I’ll try. If I can’t answer them, maybe I can refer you to someone who can.

One of the first hit records was "Lookin’ For More In ‘64" by Jim Nesbitt, so it would have been around 1964! And actually that record came out while my family lived in Louisville, Georgia. The money we made from that record was enough for Dad (Slim) to move us to Nashville! We literally took the proceeds from "Lookin’ For More In ‘64" by Jim Nesbitt and moved to Nashville Tennessee!

Oh you bet!

It sold very well. By today’s standards it wouldn’t have been much of a record, but back then it was a lot of a record! Plus there was the music publishing revenue, which helped.

If that’s the case, then chances are it may have been founded a year or three before that, in 1962 or 3. But, Dad will be able to tell you that. Back then I was more about radio than records. On the radio we were Big Slim & Little Slim. It took a long time to get people to quit calling me Little Slim, although now I am proud they did.

Sure, Peach.

Yonah was a music publishing company. He eventually sold the publishing companies to Acuff-Rose.

That’s exactly right. Yonah Music (BMI) was named for a mountain that overlooked Cleveland, Ga. Yonah Mountain. Later, there was also Sue-Mirl Music (ASCAP) named for my Mom, Merle and Ott’s wife, Sue.

I think the first time was to a company in New York, Audio Fidelity. Herman Gimble was the principal. Dad will have to tell you the year and all that, if he can remember it. It was a long time ago! He bought it back from them and sold it at least one more time. Herman was a real gentleman and businessman. Dad speaks highly of him. I think Dad learned a good bit from Mr. Gimble.

Yep, he was one of the principals involved.

Hmm, I don’t remember him. I have heard of Tom Anthony, but I don’t remember him buying Chart. It was Bill Worden that I remember. Maybe Mr. Anthony did, I’m just not sure.

Yes I have. It’s very interesting. It’s nice that you’ve taken to time to do something like this.

After I spoke to you the last time and looked over the website, I spoke to Dad and encouraged him to participate. He has some old press releases and things he is going to make copies of for you. They have a lot of dates and may answer some questions for you. The old Record World magazine (Charlie Lamb & John Strudivant) did a big spread on Chart Records. If Dad still has a copy of that, it’ll answer most of your questions.

Yep! You should ask him about it when you talk to him and see if he does have a copy he could send to you. I’ve been kind of lobbying to have Dad inducted into the Georgia Music Hall Of Fame.

Well, I have the paperwork. I just haven’t gotten it completed as yet. Your website will actually help that. I can send them there to look at it, and they can see a lot of what he did. I’m just kind of waiting for you to get a little more up there and then I’ll chase after that a little harder.

Well, I think what you’re doing with the website will be very advantageous. It will help a great deal.

Thank you! I think he definitely deserves to be there. Starting out as a radio announcer at WIMO in Winder, GA to being a record company entrepreneur should certainly qualify him to be there. From Slim & the Georgia Peachboys (band), to Slim from Horse Creek (disk jockey), to radio station owner, to record label owner/executive, he has done more than most.

Maybe we can see that happen in his lifetime.

Actually, I think it might have had to do with the fact that it had been sold to Audio Fidelity. Also, one of the RCA guys from New York was close to Dad and a strong supporter of Chart Records. He died in a car accident on the way to the airport here in Nashville. After he passed away it probably just wasn’t the same. But Dad would be able to tell you all that. I haven’t even thought about these things in years and years. For the past 10 years I haven’t concentrated on anything but Reba. Also, don’t forget about the importance of Junior Samples in the later years. Junior was quite a character. One day I’ll share some of my Junior stories with you. Dad took Junior to Sam Lovelle who bought into the idea of Junior on Hee Haw. I remember at the time thinking they were all nuts. Boy was I wrong.

I’m the Chief Operating Officer of Starstruck Entertainment, which is her company and have been with her and Narvel (Blackstock, Reba’s husband/manager) for almost 10 years (Feb, 2002).

LaWanda Lindsey and I still keep in touch some - LaWanda Lindsey Smith now. She lives in New Mexico near Kenny Vernon, who I also try to keep up with. Also, one of the original artists and an early partner of Dad’s is Ott Stephens. Ott owns a radio station in Louisville, Georgia. He and his wife, Sue, visit us once in a great while and we them. We try to keep in touch. I think he sees my mother and father more often, since they are all in Georgia. Dave Peel and I have remained friends over the years. We try to call each other every now and then. Ernie Rowell is still in the business and I run into him pretty often. We try to stay in touch.

Yep, that’s true. Everyone was buddies and it was a lot of fun. A couple of Dad’s great friends were Joe and Betty Gibson. Betty passed away a few years ago and I believe Joe is also living in Georgia now. Joe was promotion & marketing with Betty’s help at promotion. Their son, Noel, still works in the music business in Nashville. He has an indie label and distribution company.

Ha, ha! I was just a kid who had a great father who let him hang out and play with the family! I produced some of the records, well quite a few actually. And really that was pretty much my position. When Dad kind of bowed out a little, he handed it over to me, and I ran the day to day business for a while. Not long though. Mainly, I was a producer and head of A & R. I was too young to run a record label. I can safely say if I only new then, what I know now. But that’s life isn’t it?

You know I guess I was, come to think about it. During that time period I sure was. For about a year or two I ran the label. But I don’t want to take anything away from Dad, because that was his thing, not mine. I stepped in and helped when he needed me to, but the primary thing I did for him was produce a bunch of records -- some pretty good and some not so good. Lloyd Green and a bunch of incredible musicians helped me accomplish more than I was capable of. For a matter of fact, my awe for Lloyd’s talent as compared to my own and the city dump had a lot to do with my decision that I really shouldn’t have been producing records at that time.

There’s a neat little story I like to tell. When I left Chart, I went to work at Tree Publishing. With help from my Dad I got an appointment with Buddy Killen at Tree Music Publishing. My real thing has been music publishing. As a matter of fact, I came here (Starstruck) as a music publisher, too. I was head of the Starstruck Writers Group in the beginning before moving up the chain of command. Oh, I digress – back to the story.

When I went to see Buddy Killen he liked me and said he would give me a shot as a song plugger at Tree, but I would have to meet Jack Stapp, and he’s got to like me and say OK. He said if he approves of you, you got the job. So I went to see Jack, and I told him this story which I believe helped me get the job. As a matter of fact after I told him this story, he just said, "Son, you’re hired!"

At least once a year, usually in the summer, Dad would have me get a rental truck. I would get a couple big strong guys to help, and we would load up all the records that didn’t sell (the returns) and take them to the city dump. That’s where Metro Center (in Nashville) is located now. They built it right on top of the dump! Being a creative kind of guy and enjoying doing my job, you know - and I think to keep me in check with reality - Dad would send me out there to the dump to get rid of the records that didn’t sell. At that time country records didn’t sell all that much. I mean you could have a top 5 hit and not sell many records to speak of. So one day I’m out there with these two guys, and we’re sweating like crazy and pushing those records out the back of the truck. Man, the dump stinks, especially in the summertime. So somewhere between the tears of watching what I had thought were great records going out the back of the truck to a stinky, mirky grave and thinking what’s it all about, I came to an overwhelming realization. I said, "And Jack you know what? To this day every time I hear a song that’s not a hit, I smell the city dump! He looked over at me and said, "Son, you’re hired!" He literally hired me, I think, because of that story, but it was a true story! I admit that dump had a profound effect on my entertainment career.

Well, I don’t know about that. We just did some things that were a little bit different for that particular time, you know. Cutting "The Crawdad Song", which was especially, really different - "Pickin’ Wild Mountain Berries" with Kenny & LaWanda. At that time it was pretty progressive for country music. Now that would be considered pretty dog-gone country, but back then it was rather progressive. Then we did several successful covers of rock hits like, "Angel of the Morning" by Connie and "Proud Mary", by Anthony Armstrong Jones. Conway Twitty introduced us to Anthony. Conway actually made the suggestion that we cut "Proud Mary". Conway and I went on to become really good friends. I traveled to a few shows one summer with him and Big Joe, Pork Chop and Hughey. Conway called me "Click". I really miss seeing him.

You know what? It was just about emotions and what felt good and what sounded good to me at the time. I think "Pickin’ Wild Mountain Berries" is a great illustration of that. It was so up and moving. It had the traditional elements in it with the banjo (Bobby Thompson) and steel guitar (Lloyd Green) playing some very unique patterns, but the other thing that was so cool about it was that it had some rhythm that could appeal to a younger audience. More I think it was us doing things we all liked and what really felt good and not being afraid to do anything. At times I guess we did some things my Dad was probably wondering about! Whether it was right or wrong, who the heck knows! But it was sure fun! And he let us do it.

It was a blast, no doubt about it. You have to know that when we moved to Nashville I got a job at WKDA, which at that time was an AM station and played top 40. Back then, AM was king and FM was kind of like elevator music. In evenings or on weekends, I was one of the KDA "Good Guys" on the radio. Funny thing, a couple of my listeners back then was Louise, Irlene and Barbara Mandrell. That was before their careers took off. Their family had just moved to town from California. I think a lot of Irby and Mary, their parents and the whole family, including Irlene and Barbara’s husband, Ken. Ken was in the Air Force back then. He was a pilot. Those were great times. Today, Barbara and Ken are friends with Reba and Narvel, as well.

Anyway, my father and I were both pretty grounded in radio. Even though I was producing those records I didn’t give up the radio thing for quite awhile. I’m playing all those rock & roll and pop records as a disc jockey and that probably influenced where I went as a producer, too.

I don’t think any ever did. Crash Craddock recorded for the label and later went on to be even bigger when he left. Del Reeves was a good example of that. Ask Dad about that. He was a great friend of my fathers and was kinda one of the gang. He cut some songs that Yonah published, but I don’t know if Dad would have ever had a shot with him at Chart or not, though. I was friends with the Mandrell’s, but never had a chance to work with any of them. Just friends.

Well, I guess I didn’t realize that. Then, they didn’t really get passed on, but later on went to do greater things with other labels. I can’t think of anyone that we passed on who later went on to do great things.

That’s right!

Well, one of the companies was National Record Pressing Company here in Nashville. Joe Talbot owned it. He and Dad were friends. Dad could probably tell you some of the others, but National was the main one that I remember. Dad was also friends with Bill Lowery in Atlanta and before we moved to Tennessee, Bill hooked him up with someone near Atlanta to press records. I used to go watch them press the things. I remember a very young Ray Stevens was at the plant in Atlanta on one of our visits. Ray had a new sports car and he was kind enough to show it to me. It was pretty wild! That was before he had his first hit record. When RCA was with us, the records were pressed in their plants. I remember going with Dad to some of the RCA pressing plants, also. He always liked to touch base with everyone from the ground up. He was probably one of the few people that would actually go to a pressing plant. That’s where I remember them pressing them. They’d take a little piece of plastic and throw it in there and a record would come out. It was really fascinating.

Yes, you know, I can hear it and smell it right now, if I close my eyes and think about it! It was a unique sound and smell.

Sammy Poole. He did a religious album with us. I don’t think he did any country.

That’s what I thought. I remember Sammy.

Yeah, somebody messed up at the plant.

Seems like I remember when that happened. Maybe it happened more than once. I do remember some talk about something like that taking place.

You know Dad, trying to be an innovator somewhat, I think he purposely pressed some records with something different on each side. If you’re sending that to a radio station, you really didn’t need to have something on both sides if you just wanted the one to go. He may have done yours on purpose I don’t know if he did or not. It happened a few times by accident, too.

Oh Wow! You know, I don’t remember. I had almost forgotten about the Buddah thing.

I don’t know that it necessarily did. It might have had something to do with it, but there were probably a lot of things that contributed to that. I can’t remember now if Dad did the Buddah deal or if I did. It could have happened on my watch, I don’t really remember it’s been so long ago.

1973 . . . that probably was when I was heading the company, but Dad was always there to help. Because of the fact that we were independent and a boutique type of a record label, we were always getting hit on from people wanting to do something. There were always opportunities like that, so it could have been a call from them. We might not have done anything besides take them up on their offer. I just don’t remember, maybe Dad does.

Well, Bill Worden bought it and you’d have to ask him why it folded. I don’t know what happened after he bought it. It just seems like it went away. I don’t even think Dad knows what happened to it.

That project that Dallas did was a brainstorming idea he had regarding the Bicentennial. I had an artist friend, Lowell Mosley do a painting and the artist happened to know some of the Daughters of the American Revolution. The DAR adopted the painting and Dallas’ music as a project for the Bicentennial. It was pretty interesting to meet those ladies and see what they were all about. Does Dallas still do any music?

That sounds great.

Yes. The first one was WRWH in Cleveland, GA. He then built WPEH in Louisville, Ga., which he later sold to Ott (Stephens). Next he bought WLOV in Washington, GA. Those were the first 3. After that he bought the radio station in Winnsboro, SC., one in Jackson, GA and one in Alabama, but I don’t remember the name of the city. Then he built the radio station in Portland, TN., WQKR. Ronnie McDowell introduced him to Portland, and that’s how Portland ended up with a radio station. (Slim had another record label named Scorpion Records for which Ronnie recorded for.) And that’s where I met my wife. I went back to work for Dad in radio. I left Tree Publishing in 1981 and moved to Portland. My brother, Marty and I jumped in and rolled up our sleeves and helped build it. I met the editor of the newspaper, Cindy Vanatta Sanders, and she became my wife. We’ve been married for over 20 years now! Another interesting point about the radio stations is that Dad had a financial partner named Henry Braselton (Braselton, Georgia). Dad credits Henry with helping him to make his dreams come true. Henry is still living in Braselton and is a close family friend.

Well, I think we were meant for each other. It just took a while to get us together.

High School friends introduced us, from Overton High. We were kind of friends, and record producer/artist type of a thing and very young. And that’s how all that happened. We were married for a short period of time. Almost four years. We had a daughter, Cortney, and she has 2 sons, so I have 2 grandsons there, and Cindy & I have a daughter, Velvet, who has a son, so I have 3 grandsons! I also have a step-son, Steven. Connie was very sick. I don’t know if you know about that or not.

I don’t think it’ll hurt to say this, because I know if Connie were alive she would be very supportive in helping people who have this, but she was manic depressive. She had a lot of heartache in her life because of that mental condition. Frankly, it’s probably what kept her from being more successful as a recording artist. She was a talented lady.

I saw that on the web site you had that Connie died, you thought, in a car wreck. She actually died of lung cancer. My daughter could tell you when it was. I think it was about 3 or 4 years ago. Cindy and I went to the funeral and everything, but I can’t remember the exact day she passed away.

Yes, I was born in 1949 and she was a year younger than me.

Actually Gary Walker owned the logo and the name "Chart". He’s an old friend of my Dad’s. He heard Dad talking about how he wanted a new label, a new union label, cause the Peach label wasn’t a union label. It was a very expensive and lengthy process to get a union label back then. Anyways, Gary heard him talking and said he had one he’d sell him. I think he bought the logo and the label itself for $300.00. Gary had started it, just hadn’t done anything with it much. Gary’s the guy who owns the Great Escapes chain of record stores in Nashville.

I don’t think he ever did. He probably should have a few times, but I don’t think so! If he did it would have been for my best good.

Wow! Whew! That’s a tough one! I would have to contemplate on that one for a while. Like I said before, I’ve lived and breathed Reba McEntire for the past 10 years. I haven’t thought about these things in over 30 years.

No. I guess I really didn’t. But I did learn a lot back then. I learned a lot about dreaming. But somewhere along the line diligence has become my mantra. At least for the past 20 years, anyway. I realized that just dreaming wasn’t quite enough. God gives us the talent and the opportunity, but He expects us to supply the effort. I learned that during my days at Chart, but it wasn’t really until near the end that I said, "Wow, I get this!"

I’ve used this to encourage and inspire songwriters that I have worked with since then, and that is: Diligence is the ingredient that transforms a dream to reality. Physical work isn’t enough, either. You’ve got to put your heart in it, too. It just don’t happen unless you’re a diligent, hard working human being. Diligence is what you get when you put your heart in to hard work. I think I picked that up watching Dad and doing what we did back at Chart. Back then it was easy saying, man this is fun. But when you’re in the city dump and smell that and see all those records being dumped, it’ll give you a big old wake up call. Another thing I learned at Chart was that God gives us all a talent and I was always struggling with, "what’s mine". I could play guitar, but not very well. I could play saxophone, but I was never going to be the world’s greatest saxophone player. I could write a song, but I was never going to be another Curly Putnam or Bobby Braddock. The talent God gave me was watching after the talent He gave other people. It was like he had given someone the talent to write great songs, and he gave me the talent to nurture that. I think that is what I’ve lived to accomplish. It was the Chart days that helped me see that. That’s why I give the credit for those great records to Lloyd Green and others. I could start naming names and that could be dangerous! There were a lot of great musicians during those days, Pig Robbins, Bill Purcell, Jimmy Capps, Bobby Thompson, Norbert Putman, Buddy Harmon and so on and so on. Gosh, I could go on for days and days if I ever got started about who made those records happen for me. I’ve learned a lot over the years and maybe one day I’ll even go back and produce a record again. God might have a talented singer who needs Cliff’s help.

I’ve been working on a book and one day when I don’t have so much to do, I’ll finish it. I’m writing for my grandsons, but maybe someone else will find some inspiration in it, too.

I’ve learned a lot from Reba, too. What a talented and hard working lady she is. I mean, she takes diligence to another level. Being around her has shown me how to maximize all you have and never forget where you come from and what’s really important in life – God, family, friends and good health.

I went to work for General Record Corp. for a couple years. What a nightmare that was! Then came Tree Publishing for 7 years, then I worked in radio for my Dad for a year or so, then I went to work at Multimedia, a radio & newspaper conglomerate that wanted me to start a music publishing company for them. I was there for 4 or 5 years, then for Alabama, the group not the state, as creative director of their music publishing company – Maypop. I did that for 7 years and finally to Reba’s. I’ve been here for almost 10 years. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it as they say!

It’s been a pleasure talking with you and I appreciate you doing what you’re doing. It’s a very nice thing, especially for my family and those who poured their hearts into a label called Chart. I hope it leaves a little to posterity about what was once a "great little record label".

That’s exactly what I’m hoping for too.

And really & truly Starstruck Writers Group, Reba’s publishing company that we sold to Warner Brothers last year (2000), was to the music publishing business what Chart was to the record business. We did things a little differently. I don’t know if there will ever be another Chart or if there will ever be another Starstruck Writers Group.

Yes, it really is. I’ll keep an eye on the website and If I come up with anything that may be of use, I’ll let you know.

Thanks and you too.