How did you become associated with Chart records?
A friend of mine brought me out to Nashville where Slim was going to do a record on me. I paid for the session and everything. The record came out pretty good and Slim decided to release the record and went ahead and signed me. I stayed with him for 7 years!
What did you do after Chart? Music wise.
After Chart I moved over to Capitol where I recorded the "Loversville" album. I stayed with them for 4 years. That’s when I retired.
Retired?!
Yes, that’s when I retired. I had worked in Las Vegas show rooms for 15 years. I never did move to Nashville. Slim and the company wanted me to move to Nashville so I could get into the country music industry, but I was hanging out up there in Vegas with Merle Haggard, Waylon Jennings, and Buck Owens! I had a bird nest on the ground up there and I wasn’t going to give it up for nothing!
Wow! I don’t blame you!
How was your experience at Chart Records? How did it affect your career?
It boosted my career. It gave me notoriety. I wasn’t concerned about the money too much. I was in a money pit out in Vegas! I worked the Golden Nugget longer than anyone else ever did. It got my name out there and I had a lot of records that were on the charts. I got a lot of airplay with Chart.
I don’t know too much about the record business, but I do know you have to get the record played! I understand Slim owned a lot of radio stations in those days, too.
Right. Probably 5 or 6. Slim knew the music business. He knew how to promote and he did well with it! All of his artists got played on the radio. I was going to ask you, did you know Maxine Brown of the Browns recorded for Chart.
Yes, I have her album, "Sugar Cane County".
And Johnny Dollar?
Yep. I have his record too. "Big Rig Rollin’ Man". I have all the albums Chart released.
Man, Where did you get all these albums?!
Shoot, from all over! I got some from sellers on eBay, some from local record stores, I scoured the internet and found a lot of used record pages, I got most of them that way. I have all 61 of them.
What did Slim Williamson say when you told him you had all of the albums?
Well, he didn’t say too much. I think he said something like "What in the world are you wanting all them for!". No, actually we didn’t get to talk too much. I think he was preparing for a trip to Biloxi and then on to Nashville. He said after the Ronnie McDowell scene he really didn’t want to fool with the record business anymore. He got into real estate and has done extremely well in that arena. He said at one time he had every thing about the Chart Label. Lists of all the singles and albums, when they were released and the whole nine yards but he got tired of it all and threw it all away! I was in total shock!
Wow!
That was when I first talked to him. I got to speak to him briefly again a few weeks later, and he said he had cleaned out his barn and found a whole lot of stuff. A lot of records on Chart, Great, and Scorpion Records.
He also had a label called Peach.
Oh yes, indeed. I have found a little information about the records on that label, but not much. If I’m not mistaken, the music was more rock-a-billy on that label. But I’m guessing. I’m just going by a few names I’ve seen on the label. I’ve seen their names on some rock-a-billy pages on the internet.
I produced an album on Peach. It was a religious album by my church out here.
Oh they released albums on that label? I thought it was a singles only label. I’ve only been able to find about 7 or so singles on that label! That’s it!
No I’ve got an album. It’s the Berean Baptist Church, in Albuquerque.
That’s neat! I never knew any LP’s were released on that label.
You know, Slim’s made so much money, I don’t blame him for throwing all that Chart Records stuff away. He a smart man, he’s money wise and he knows how to do it!
When I had spoken with Lloyd Green, he told me that Slim had mentioned to him that Slim felt like he didn’t get any respect from any of the other record companies in Nashville. Maybe that contributed to his disillusionment with the record industry.
I don’t know, Martin. But, I’d say that Lloyd Green knows him better than anyone. They were great friends. Lloyd was very influential with Chart Records. He played on about everything they released. In fact Lloyd Green is the Chart Records Sound.
That’s very apparent. As a matter of fact, Paul Gibson who is assisting with this web page, said the very same thing when we were first considering putting this thing together.
Oh you bet. And Lloyd is just a great guy. A real super guy. I talk to Lloyd every now and then.
Other than a recording artist, did you have any other duties with the label?
No, that was it.
What was your relationship with Slim, Cliff and other key members of the organization?
Well, I didn’t really have a relationship with any of the other people, except maybe Joe Gibson. He was a great songwriter. I got along with everybody. Everybody treated me just fantastic. They made me feel like I was a star whether I was or not, and I wasn’t.
Well, I wouldn’t say that! I don’t really remember what all was on the radio back then, I was probably only 10 or so, but the songs on your albums are super!
Well, we got played a lot. We got a lot of radio play.
I can certainly see why!
Who was responsible for choosing your material to be recorded?
We all did. I wrote a lot of stuff back then. We’d record a lot of our own stuff. Slim and Joe would play songs. Jerry Lane who was one of the big writers back then. He wrote a lot of stuff. I wrote with him and Gene Hood. We get different records, and Slim was pretty liberal. He’d let you record pretty much what you wanted to as long as it was good.
That’s good, you know. I’ve heard stories about record executives who wanted the artists to record only what they wanted and nothing else. They really didn’t give the artists much say so in the matter. From what I know so far about Slim, he knew what he wanted, but he also knew that the artists knew what to do.
I think Slim and Cliff both were innovators in that they were some of the first to let the artists have some control in running their sessions. One of Slim’s big sayings was "Make me believe it. When you sing that song, make me believe it." I’ll never forget him for that. He got a lot out of the artists that other producers couldn’t get. I have the up most respect for him and for Cliff.
How did the collaboration with you and LaWanda Lindsey start?
She was an artist there when she was 14 years old. They wanted me to record with Maxine Brown but our voices didn’t match well enough. She had a low voice and mine was high. I met LaWanda and I think Cliff had mentioned they were trying to find someone to record with her. They teamed us up and we had a hit record with "Picking Wild Mountain Berries". That was the biggest thing either one us had ever had.
That whole album is pretty good.
Yes, I think so too. It sold quite a few records.
That’s one of the things I’d like o know. How many units each LP sold and what it’s highest place on the charts were. Some I’ve seen Billboard reviews on, but only a few.
I think you’d be hunting a needle in a haystack on that one. I can tell you this, Lynn Anderson did better than most of the other artists that was on Chart. She was almost always in the top 10. She had Ride, Ride, Ride, and Promises, Promises. They were 2 of her biggest ones on Chart. Lynn Anderson lives in Taos, NM. Only 125 miles from where I live. And LaWanda lives right here in Albuquerque and we’re still great friends!
Yes. It’s a shame Lynn left Chart and moved over to Columbia when she did. I mean, it did her more good to move over to Columbia.
Yes, over at Columbia she had Rose Garden, which was produced by her husband Glenn Sutton. That was her biggest record to date!
Is there anything special you like to say about your records?
No we were just trying to cut good country records like like all the other artists in that era. Nothing really special about them. I’d sing and pick a little country music. That’s about it.
Did any of them have a particular fondness?
Well, the most requested record was "Yes Virginia" that Liz Anderson wrote. I got more response out of that one that any other. And then, I don’t think any artist is going to brag on their records. For the time and era, I guess our records are as good as any of them.
What happened in your career after Chart. Was there a gap between the time you left Chart and signed with Capitol?
No, not at all. I signed with Capitol immediately in L.A. I was living on the west coast and started my music career there along Wynn Stewart, Buck Owens, Merle Haggard, and a few other artists. That’s were the West Coast Sound began. We had a different sound going for us. Ken Nelson with Capitol was one of the innovators in the West Coast Sound. Earl Ball, who was a piano player, was my producer on Capitol and was also from the west coast. Then later on I started recording in Nashville.
When we spoke earlier, you had mentioned something you called "Cliff’s New Sound". Can you expound on that a bit?
Cliff Williamson was taking songs like "Take a Letter Maria", rock songs, and moving them over to country. And they’re still doing that today in the country field. Some country songs now, back in the 60’s would be classified with heavy metal rock!
Exactly! I know what you’re talking about there.
I recorded the Band’s "Up On Cripple Creek" and Cliff done it kind of upbeat. He was doing what all the other record labels were trying to do, but he was having more success at it. Cliff flew out to LA where I was recording "Polk Salad Annie", which I absolutely murdered! We just had it too fast. We had been doing it more relaxed, but we had James Burton, who played guitar with Rick Nelson and Elvis, on that session and we were trying to do something different. Maybe if I’d brought in some twin fiddles and played some Ray Price stuff, we’d have been ok!
I think it was all ok!
You know, the Chart catalog has been out of circulation so long, a lot of people have forgotten about it. I want to try and let folks reacquaint themselves with the music on the label somehow. The only thing I’ve seen in recent years released from that label was Lynn Andersons "The Chart Anthology".
Well if I can do anything to help you with anything on Chart, please let me know. I think it’s a rarity what you’re doing and I think it’s good to bring up some of the old Chart stuff.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
When Slim offered to sell the masters did you buy yours?
No, that was one of my many mistakes. I should have bought mine, but I didn’t. Anthony Armstrong Jones bought his and Buck Owens bought LaWanda Lindsey’s. They still have mine, and they have LaWanda’s and my duets and they won’t sell them at all. Which really doesn’t matter, I don’t really need them. I guess if I did have them though I would put out a Chart record also.
I think it be a great idea to have some of those albums re-released. There was some super music on that label.
I think so too, but I don’t think it’ll ever happen.
Unfortunately, me either. I want to thank you for talking with me tonight Kenny. It was a real pleasure! Thanks again, Kenny.
Thank you Martin, keep up the good work!